Global Policy Forum

Interview by Paula Zahn

ZAHN: A report in "The Washington Post" this morning basically says that Hans Blix, "has expressed sympathy for Iraq's claim that it would not be able to fully comply with the Security Council's demand that it provide a complete declaration of its civilian and military chemical, biological and nuclear programs by the December 8 deadline." What does that mean?

BUTLER: I'm going to be very frank and blunt about this. It is well known in Washington and elsewhere that in the past, Dr. Blix, when he was head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, gave reports on a couple of situations where materials were being diverted to a nuclear weapons program in North Korea, Iran and elsewhere that turned out to be wrong. And people are concerned that he may behave that way again under these circumstances. Questions ... are being asked about Dr. Blix. (Butler also explained how the Iraqis would proceed in hoodwinking the world regarding its weapons programs):

"As far as the Iraqi declaration is concerned, Saddam Hussein knows exactly what weapons they've got. The bottom line is this. Read the Security Council resolution. It makes very clear: Iraq must make a declaration by 8 December of its weapons of mass destruction programs - not where it makes aspirin or fertilizer in its chemical factories, its weapons program. And Iraq, up until the present time, has been saying it has no such program.

"Now, in great contradiction, [Iraq is] saying, my god, if you want us to make this declaration, it's going to be thousands of pages, very confusing and so on. Paula, it's nonsense. They have to make a declaration of their weapons program, and it's as simple as that. They know what it is. They must declare it."

ZAHN: Well, is "lying" the same word to use as "contradictions" here?

BUTLER: Iraq has lied to the world for a very long time about its weapons program. [It] seems to me that they're preparing not to comply with the law once again. I'll give you one example. They spent five years telling us that they had no - and I mean no - biological weapons program. None whatsoever. When we were able to prove to them that that was not true, and we actually confronted them, I spoke personally with Tariq Aziz about this, what did he say? He said, oops, we lied. We lied, OK?

And then, they said, well, we did have a biological weapons program, but it was only a little teeny one. So, they moved from denial to minimization.

Now, this is a longstanding Iraqi approach, but they can't take that approach this time, Paula. This current resolution of the Security Council is black-on-white. It makes very clear: You will tell the truth or else. And I hope they get that.

ZAHN: But, Richard, as you know, there are a lot of people who believe that these inspections will only be as successful as the leadership of Hans Blix. And the ... "The Wall Street Journal" this morning ... goes pretty far, where you have the director of the Wisconsin Program on Nuclear Arms Control saying that "Hans Blix has an unsurpassed record of failure of dealing with Saddam Hussein."

BUTLER: Well, yes ... there was a track record in the past where Hans Blix, you know, turned a bit of a blind eye to some things that maybe he shouldn't have. This is, as the Security Council resolution says, Iraq's final opportunity.

Iraq has to understand that, Hans Blix has to understand that. That it's not a question of reaching diplomatic compromises anymore. It's a question of objective fact about weapons. Iraq has to declare those objectively, the inspectors under Hans Blix have to do their job objectively. Otherwise, there's going to be very serious trouble.

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