Twenty-four NGOs representatives attended, as well as four staff members (see attached list). The meeting was chaired by James Paul, Chair of the Working Group.

Jim Paul welcomed those present and confirmed that everyone had received the Briefing Paper. He explained that a late-scheduled luncheon meeting of the Security Council prevented Ambassadors Wlosowicz (Poland) and Mahugu (Kenya) from attending. He called attention to the text of the GA Resolution on the report of the Security Council to the GA (A\51\ ) and to the text of the Italian Proposal.

Jim Paul spoke about upcoming meetings of the WG in February, March and April. He thanked Nawan Bailey; Bill Pace and Naomi Onaga of WFM; and the WG steering group: Bill, Catherine, Gail, Peter, Andrew and Alyn.

Bill Pace summarized the GA resolution, recalling that our last meeting had been on precisely this topic. The resolution calls for a variety of different means of improved reporting by the council to the General Assembly, not only on actions taken but on actions proposed but not taken. The resolution will not lead to dramatic changes, since four of the five permanent members voted against it, but it is part of a growing movement towards more transparency and accountability.

Amb. Fulci arrived and was introduced by Jim Paul. The Ambassador said that he was glad to be invited and was a friend of NGOs. He said he has always noticed that dynamic people can accomplish a great deal. NGOs may not have much money, but through their own effective work they can have a great influence at the United Nations.

He told a story of his first weeks at the UN as Italian PR. Italy had the second largest contingent of troops in Somalia. The Italian President rang him up in the middle of the night and said that the Italian Chief of Staff had reported that tomorrow there would be an attack by UN troops in Somalia in which an estimated seventy Italian soldiers would lose their lives. He was told to immediately speak to the Security Council and tell them "no way" - Italy was opposed. The next morning, he went to the Security Council area and tried to enter, but he was barred by a guard at the outer door. The guard said "Who are you?" and he answered, "I am Ambassador Fulci of Italy and I must speak urgently to the President of the Security Council." The guard replied, "I'm sorry, Mr. Ambassador, but only Council members can enter here, or those who have scheduled intereviews with the President."

Furious, he went back to the Mission and drafted a letter to the President of the Council and sent his Deputy to deliver it. He learned later that the Council had considered the matter in secret consultation, but he never received an answer. At that point, he called the Prime Minister and said: "I must either resign or be given permission to run in the elections for Security Council membership." He got permission and ran in the elections on a platform of greater transparency. Throughout his two years of membership, he worked for this goal and made some progress, even though his efforts were not always favored by "the big guys." His initiatives followed on those of New Zealand, Argentina and the Czech Republic.

What has been accomplished? He mentioned inclusion of the agenda of SC consultations in the Journal, presidential briefings to the press and to troop contributors as two of the most important "conquests." And he noted that there is a much closer relationship between the GA President and the SC President, as shown by the monthly meetings. When he was President in December, GA President Razali met along with a large number of GA Vice Presidents, enabling a wider sharing of information. In general, there is movement towards transparency and wider forms of participation.

Where do NGOs fit in? At present there is a review of consultative status that will begin in a sub-group of the Essy Group. Amb. Kamal will chair. There will be discussions in the European Union group that Italy will participate in.

NGOs should attend the regular press briefings of the Security Council President and they should fight for recognition step-by-step. There will be moments of discouragement, but if they persist they will make progress.

Cora Weiss: Is there a danger of slippage, such that the recent gains might be lost?
Amb. Fulci: Yes, there is always such a danger, but the conquests have now been embodied in a GA resolution. Further, the Open-Ended Working Group (or, as we like to call it, the "never-ending working group") may reach some agreement on these matters, known as Cluster II, even though three or four countries have been opposed.

Peter Davies: Amb. Kamal was very concerned to keep references to the Security Council out of the "soundings" he recently held with NGOs. When Catherine raised the issue and he immediately ruled her out of order.
Amb. Fulci: That is because the Security Council reform belongs in another working group and does not come under his mandate.

Bill Pace: Would the President of the Security Council be able to brief NGOs in his capacity as a PR?
Amb. Fulci: Probably not. But some means of dialogue should be found. NGOs know so much that their knowledge would be of great interest to the council members and to troop contributors. Another means of dialogue would be for NGOs to provide very precise reports to the Secretariat, to the council President or to member states on issues currently before the council.

Bill Pace: Can NGOs gain a voice in or have direct input into the Open-Ended Working Group on Security Council Reform?
Amb. Fulci: Some delegations support this idea, but one member said no.

Bella Abzug: The actions of the Security Council affect women and children. NGOs must gain a greater voice, so that they can help advance women's rights. WEDO wants to be more active in this area. We won't accept the excuse that it can't be done.
Amb. Fulci: Said he raised the issue of women in council deliberations, perhaps for the first time. One country said: "This is the Security Council and we only deal with peace and security, not development and human rights." Another country said: "This is a religious matter and it is none of your business to interfere." He replied to the first: "Don't you think this will create instability and affect security?" And to the second he said: "Your country has signed treaties and Plans of Action at confernces, we are talking here about implementing those treaties

Ameen Jan: Does consultation with the Secretariat have a place in this process as a means of influencing the Security Council?
Amb. Fulci: Yes, but not abstractly. You must find the right people, the dynamic people, the people that can really help you.

Cora Weiss: We must remember that consultation with the Security Council should involve more than just the humanitarian relief organizations, with their people "on the ground." NGOs working on peace and global policy issues have important things to say to the Council as well and they may represent very broad constituencies.
Peter Davies: I want to make it clear that we are united here. It is not a matter of humanitarian organizations like mine versus the others. We intend to work together with NGOs in other fields and we don't make any special claims to exclusive rights vis a vis the council.

Lucy Webster: There may be alliances between NGOs and delegations on some of these issues.
Amb. Fulci: Italy wins elections at the UN because it adopts policy positions that attract broad support and because it works to win the support of other members. NGOs must find their allies, appeal to them and work with them. That is the winning strategy.

Jeff Laurenti: What is the perspective of elected members of the council? What kind of progress is being made in procedural matters? And why did Italy abstain on the GA resolution vote on SC reporting?
Amb. Fulci: Informal meetings of the Security Council used to be very formal. Members would refer to each other as "The Distinguished Representative of the United Kingdom" and so on. Now there is a more informal practice and members refer to each other as "Ambassador Weston" and so on. During his presidency, he insisted that meetings start on time. This came to be known as the "Fulci Rule." He would start even if not all members were present, as long as a quorum of 8 was on hand. Now everyone runs so as to be present at 10:30 when the council begins its work. He said of these and other reforms: "If one is bold, one can obtain results." -- Among the elected members, some are passive, either out of devotion or out of need to do what the big guys say. Others are bold. It depends on the particular nature of the people and the states they represent. -- He went on to say that NGOs should follow this principle, not be discouraged, and develop personal contacts with council members. -- As for Italy's vote, it resulted from a rule Italy follows, which is always to vote with the majority in the EU Group. The rule is a good one, even though it results sometimes in votes we do not agree with.

Steve Marks: There was an "understanding" that the ECOSOC resolution proposing wider NGO consultative rights did not extend to the Security Council and to the Bretton Woods Institutions. What can we do under this circumstance?
Amb. Fulci: Lobby member states. Lobby within the EU in hopes of getting a majority in support. Eight makes an EU majority.

Shazia Rafi: Should NGOs present statements of joint views to the Security Council? And if the US is blocking, shouldn't we be lobbying in Washington?
Amb. Fulci: By all means unite your efforts. And expand your work with parliamentarians. Italy sends every year six parliamentarians to participate in the delegation during the main session of the GA. These are the parliamentarians that provide the best support for the UN because they understand what is going on. The effort over the years has paid off. An effort is needed to educate the US Congress.

After Amb. Fulci left, there was a brief discussion of what the Working Group should be doing to plan its future activities and initiatives. People felt that there was not time to address this question, so it was left to the steering group to take it up.